Rory Ridley-Duff Interview

Rory Ridley-Duff is one of the co-founders of Protos.  Born in Sussex, England, Rory first broke onto the music scene when he co-wrote two tracks for the album Seaside Rock, in 1981.  This venture led to Protos's first album release, One Day a New Horizon, in 1982.  Since then, Rory's keyboard playing and composing skills have drawn praise from around the globe.  This is the full English translation of Rory's interview with Nobuhisa Nakanishi for Euro Rock Press - Japan's leading progressive rock magazine.

Interview questions by Nobuhisa Nakaniski

1. Please tell us briefly about yourself.  For example, where you are from, what type of family background you have, etc.?

I was born in a place called Littlehampton and grew up in a farming village called West Wittering on the south coast of England.  My mother, Ilse, is Austrian.  She had to flee with her two sisters during World War II and eventually settled in England.  She developed a good reputation as an artist locally - some of her paintings have been exhibited in London.  In her 30s, she met my father, affectionately nicknamed Chunky.  His parents worked in India helping indigenous people establish their own businesses during the rule of the British.  He went to Cambridge University to study English, but later switching to music.  In adult live he became a marine engineer but died when I was three years old.

2. When did you start to play music? Were you self-taught or did you learn music formally when you were young?

At the age of two – so the story goes – I had an upset.  I had worked out how to climb onto a cabinet and put records on the record player.  Once I finished listening, got down, went to the piano and started to cry.  My mother asked me why I was upset.  I replied through my tears “Can’t play it!”  I wanted to play music for as long as I can remember.

I was four years old when I had a few music lessons but these did not last.  Some years later, when I was about 8, my mother tried again but I hated being taught how to play music.  I preferred to compose my own.  Before I took any exams, at just 9 years old, I refused to go to piano lessons.  The love affair with composing grew in my teens.  We sold a piano and replaced it with a combined organ/synthesiser.  My formal music education did not restart until I was 19 years old.

3. Who were early influences?

My first records were Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield, Sheer Heart Attack by Queen and Goodbye Yellow Brick Road by Elton John.  The first rock concert I went to was Supertramp in Brighton when I was 15 years old.  After that I was became totally hooked and wanted to write as much as possible.  My friends got me listening to Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Genesis and Pink Floyd.  I later discovered Yes, Camel, ELP and other progressive rock artists.  At first, I did not like Genesis, but after a friend – Helen Peters – lent me Selling England By the Pound they became my favourite band.  I eventually did my undergraduate dissertation on the musical output of Genesis band members up to 1986.

4. You formed Protos with Stephen when you were at school. Please tell us how you got interested in progressive rock? What was the original formation? What kind of music did you play back then?

Both Steve and I liked the same kind of music but had few records.  We got together every weekend to listen to the music we liked, arrange music that I was composing and working out our favourite tracks so we could play them.  When Seconds Out was released, Steve and I worked out the harmonies/melodies to Los Endos so that we could play it.  Mostly, we composed/played our own music.  Tracks like Protos, The Maiden, Panamor, The Fugitive and Hunting Extremely Large Animals were all written while we were at school.  In our early performances, we played entirely our own keyboard/guitar compositions.  It was only when Iain and Nigel joined us in the early 1980s that we started playing cover versions live.

5. Later, you enrolled on a Jazz/Popular music course at the Chichester College of Technology. Does this mean that you majored in music? Or you just took a course? There you met Iain Carnegie and Nigel Rippon. Please tell us how you met them and how you (re?)formed the band.

Yes – I did 5 years full-time study of music starting with a Foundation Course in Jazz/Popular music at Chichester, and finishing with a degree in music at London University.  I was amongst the first intake of about 25 students at Chichester who studied all aspects of Jazz/Pop/Rock.  By Christmas 1980, I had learnt to write music and arranged all the Protos compositions for drums, keyboards, guitars, flute, clarinet and bass.  Iain and Nigel were in the same college department - students of classical music – but they each loved progressive rock/heavy metal music.  Nigel joined us first when he agreed to play bass guitar for a lunchtime concert.  Iain joined later, after we saw him play with another progressive rock band called Night Flight.  That line up was stable for nearly two years until Iain and I left to study music in London.

One Day a New Horizon

6. How did you get a chance to record, "One Day a New Horizon"? Please tell us about the label AIRSHIP RECORDS. How did you met them?

We learnt of Airship through their Seaside Rock project (a double-album featuring local bands).  I can’t remember who told us, but I do remember going along to their studio to ask if we could be on the album.  We paid for the studio time then got the money back selling the album to our friends.  We were the only keyboard-based progressive rock band on the album, but they still included us. 

Soon after, we saw Gemini play with a band called Nightflight at the Regis Theatre (Bognor Regis).  Gemini were selling an LP and this intrigued us.  We asked Richard Sharples (the business brains at Airship) and Sam Small (the recording engineer) how Gemini financed the album.  We worked out that we had to sell 250 LPs at GBP 3.95.  The project went ahead in late 1981 and was released in April 1982.  We sold all the albums at gigs, through family/friendship, and at the college.

7. Please explain how the recording proceeded? Any interesting story or fond memories?

We put down the keyboards to a click-track then added synth bass, guitars and drums later.  The drumming was difficult.  Neil was good playing live when he could follow my leads and cues, but in a studio he felt unsettled and it took longer than we expected.  Sam Small was incredibly patient. 

My most vivid memories came late in the recording.  Firstly, there were no computers at this time.  Sam, Steve and I would rehearse the mixing we wanted over and over again.  Each of us had a set of knobs and sliders that we had to control, with markings on the mixing desk for volume levels at different points in each track.  When ready, we did a take and if we liked it, we kept it. 

The second vivid memory is listening to the entire album on a mono speaker.  Sam – the engineer - explained that the album did not just have to sound good on a top quality audio system, but also on a small radio.  We made sure that the tiny speaker in the cheapest mono radio would not crackle when our music was played.

8. Please tell us about live gigs Protos had back then. Where did you play? What was your repertoire?

Our early gigs (when playing as a four-piece band) were at local clubs, school discos and private parties in and around Chichester (where Iain, Nigel and I were studying music).  After releasing One Day a New Horizon, we twice played at ‘Rock at the Regis’ sponsored by Airship (Bognor Regis).  We played three times outside the Cathedral in Chichester as part of the regional Arts Festival.  The Rock at the Regis gigs felt spectacular – the first time we felt (and played) like a professional rock band.  Airship hired a theatre with professional sound and lighting. 

Normally, the sets lasted about 45 minutes because there were several bands playing on the same night.  Ours always included The Maiden, The Fugitive, Hunting Extremely Large Animals and Protos.  Other numbers were switched in and out as we tested out new material like Superpowers, The Rally, Departures, A Bit Blue, Tempest and Aftermath.

In 1982, we played only our own material but by 1983/84 Iain persuaded us to introduce cover versions of Thriller (Michael Jackson), All Night Long (Lionel Richie) and Firth of Fifth (Genesis) to mix things up.  We rehearsed Cinema Show but never played it live.  Iain also argued that we should have a vocalist so we attempted parts of Jesus Christ Superstar with a singer called Danny Walton.  Steve and I resisted this and by 1984 – at our final gig for the Chichester Arts Festival – we reverted to all instrumental progressive rock, including a cover version of Firth of Fifth by Genesis.

For a while we had a manager called Brian Gartside who arranged gigs in Brighton and Littlehampton (further along the coast).  Outside the Chichester area, however, we played to small audiences. 
 
9. How about the composition process? How do/did you write music?

In the early years, I wrote most of the material and arranged it with Steve.  Steve then started developing acoustic guitar parts and I would add backing keyboards and work out melodies.  Tracks like Thing of Beauty and Panamor evolved using this approach.  Steve was a competent classical guitar player and when combined with piano accompaniments the combination was pleasing to us both. 

When albums like Animals (Pink Floyd, 1977) came out, we enjoyed double-layered keyboard/guitar passages and combined keyboard/guitar ‘solos’.  We worked these into many of our tracks (The Fugitive, Protos, The Maiden and Hunting Extremely Large Animals).  I think a characteristic of our music was the way we focussed on strong melodies and interesting harmonic changes rather than virtuoso guitar or keyboard playing.

Later, as my Jazz/Rock training progressed, I felt more confident improvising.  This comes out on tracks like Aftermath and A Bit Blue (on Into the Mouth of the Tiger).  This was quite a change.  Earlier we learnt our material note-for-note. 

Once Nigel and Iain joined, we produced some band compositions.  Each of us brought passages of material to rehearsals (both Nigel and Iain were competent keyboard players as well).  We debated and argued until we agreed how it could be worked up into a full-length composition.  This is how Tempest, The Rally and A Bit Blue evolved.

The Music Scene in the 1970s/1980s

10. When the album was recorded, the musical scene was dominated by the punk/new wave movement, and I think demand for the prog music was weak. Please explain the situation back then.

That was definitely true nationally, but locally classic rock music was popular.  Chichester is a harbour town with many small sailing clubs around the area.  There was a strong rock disco scene that drew in kids from the schools and colleges.  These discos never played pop music, although they were later influenced by punk.  The most popular disco was called ‘Freebird’, after the Lynryd Skynyrd track.  It had a big following locally and kept rock music – including prog – popular in the Chichester area until the mid-1980s.

11. AIRSHIP RECORDS also released another Progressive Rock rarity, and album by GEMINI ( Counter Balance) which is surprising considering the then UK music scene. Were they helpful towards Progressive or non commercial Rock in general ?

Yes – Airship encouraged many local bands including those playing progressive rock.  There was strong contingent of prog rock bands in the area with Protos, Night Flight and Gemini all gigging at the same time.  Although Richard Sharples was commercially sharp (and creative) there was a measure of idealism in their approach.  They loved to make music, I think, and tried to make it viable for local talent rather than seek big money by getting in musicians from outside the area.

12. Did you know the GEMINI people or other Progressive Rock bands?

We knew the musicians in Gemini and Nightflight (the band that Iain played with when we first met him in 1981).  I once stepped in to play with Nightflight when their keyboard player was ill, and even dated the cousin of one of the Gemini twins for a short period.  We knew Nick May (the Enid / Whimwise) – who also lived in Chichester - but the relationship was one of mutual respect from a distance rather than a close one.  There was also Mark Rowbottom (later drummer with Lady Grey Down and Thieves Kitchen).  Mark, Steve and I were close friends, we supported and helped each other at gigs as well and socialising together regularly.  Steve later played with Mark’s band Stepping Sideways for a while.

13. You also regularly played at the local festival. What kind of festival was it? Please explain the takes included in "Into the Mouth of the Tiger".

The Chichester Arts Festival is one of the largest in the UK outside London.  The town has a ‘Festival Theatre’ that attracts actors, comedians and musicians from the locality as well as the London stage (like a small-scale Edinburgh Arts Festival).  The Festival office liked to arrange outdoor lunchtime rock concerts and supported us by paying for professional sound equipment.  We would hire Benny Lillywhite (who we first met at ‘Rock at the Regis’).  He always produced a terrific sound for us live and would record the gigs.

The takes on Into the Mouth of the Tiger come from two ‘Rock at the Regis’ gigs (in early 1982), one concert at Chichester High School (in 1983) and one of the outdoor Chichester Festival performances (in 1984).  We always felt the sound at the Rock the Regis gigs was warm and rich.  Outdoors it is hard to get a good sound.  Benny had a good mixing desk and combined direct lines from our equipment with sound picked up from various microphones around the drum kit.  The recording quality – for the time – was close to that of commercially produced live albums (and at no extra cost to the band). 

We found tapes of the live performances in various garages and attics after releasing One Day a New Horizon.  With one or two exceptions, they still played okay, so we transferred the audio to digital and released them as a CD.

14. Around the end of original Protos, there was a little resurgence of British Progressive Rock with the debut of bands like Marillion etc. What was your feeling towards this movement? Did this movement affected the activity of Protos?

I never took to Marillion’s music.  Maybe I’ve not made enough effort to hear it but the first material friends played to me sounded like a pastiche of Genesis material, rather than something original.  I never became a fan.  Protos had disbanded by the time Marillion became popular and my solo material became more influenced by classical composers (Ravel, Debussy, Satie, Stravinsky) music from the US (Al Jarreau, Pat Metheny, George Benson, Chick Corea) and jazz/funk / experimental artists in the UK (e.g. Level 42, Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Thomas Dolby).

After Protos

15. When and why was Protos disbanded?

We initially disbanded in 1983 when Iain and I went to London to complete our music education.  I went to Royal Holloway College, London University while Iain went to the Royal Academy of Music.  Nigel stayed in Chichester to take a course that enabled him to become a teacher.  Steve – at that time – became a postman and later joined the civil service.  We still met up regularly during study breaks.  The following summer (1984) we got together to write and perform again at the Chichester Arts Festival.  This was still a productive time.  We revised the Maiden as well as putting together a new version of Tempest (these were later recorded by me for the Passing Decades album).  In that sense, we were still actively composing.  However, this turned out to be the last time we performed together. 

We stayed in touch and remained close friends.  Iain was ‘Best Man’ at my marriage to Caroline, while Steve gave a reading by Bertrand Russell during the ceremony.  I gave a speech at Iain’s wedding (in 1992) as well as an unusual wedding present: a score/recording of ‘Variations on a Theme By Iain Carnegie’.  At Steve’s first marriage, I played a wedding march chosen by them.

16. Please tell us about your musical and other activities after disbanding Protos, especially about SLY and DANZANTE (and about Clive Nolan's involvement in the later).

Even while in Protos, I started branching out and writing music for theatre.  This resulted in ‘A Light in the Dark’, music for a children’s ballet scripted by Brian Gartside.  I also wrote a musical called ‘Belloc’, also scripted by Brian Gartside.  This was performed for a season at the Alternative Arts Festival in Chichester (a bit like the ‘Fringe Festival’ at Edinburgh).

I also started writing classical works for symphony orchestra but it was not until the final year of my music degree that I heard any of these performed.  During my music degree, orchestral works like ‘Space’ evolved.  I also experimented with a more 80s feels in compositions like ‘Passing Decades’, ‘London 125’ and ‘Ghost Rap’.

Sly was a diversion from serious writing - a bit of fun for the summer period in Chichester.  We quite liked the music of Sky (John Williams) so we put together a tongue-in-cheek band called ‘Sly’.  It was a satire.  Nigel would introduce everything in an Australian accent and we pretended to be ‘Sky’ for a day, visiting the Chichester Festival for a special gig.  In a sense, we were a progressive rock ‘tribute band’ before this idea ever took off commercially.

Danzante was potentially a more serious undertaking.  Clive Nolan and Martin Pyne were also students at Royal Holloway College (London University).  We were all composers there and shared an interest in progressive/jazz rock.  They invited me to form a band and we played about half a dozen gigs and produced a demo tape.  Recordings do exists (somewhere!).  Working with Danzante resulted in the development of my recording/engineering skills.  We also rehearsed material I had written that later became part of the Passing Decades album.  Night Time, for example, was written for a student at the London Film School.  The was first recorded by Danzante.  We tried out Passing Decades and Space during gigs.  Subsequently, I re-recorded them several times until they evolved into the pieces that were later published.  One track from A Question of Expression – Suite for Piano, Marimba and Vibraphone - was commissioned by Martin Pyne.  He wanted something that he could play with his fiancé (later wife) Sarah Walker - she now presents music programmes for the BBC.

Clive, Martin and I were all strong writers/arrangers: we all specialised in composition and orchestration with (the late) Brian Dennis and Eric Levi.  I lost touch with Clive after he started playing/touring with Pendragon, but still have a connection to Martin Pyne (his wife and my wife are best friends).  Danzante disbanded amicably in 1986 after I started producing recordings for other students at the university.  I also spent time helping Iain Carnegie record/produce his first solo efforts.

17. What made up your mind to re-release the Protos album?

There is no greater incentive to release music than knowing there is an audience who wants to hear it.  The most important experience was talking to Japanese, English and US buyers of One Day a New Horizon after an auction on eBay.  Yasushi Tsuruta had a pivotal role – his enthusiasm and support was vital.  Steve and I had started talking about getting music off tapes onto CD but it was only after I sold the first copy of Passing Decades to Yasushi that we began to take the idea seriously.  Yasushi contacted World Disque and Garden Shed and after a frantic (and exciting) round of correspondence, it quickly became clear that this was a viable project.

Dave Martin, who runs a UK progressive rock festival, and Tom Hayes who runs the US prog rock web-site Gnosis, also encouraged us to re-release the material.  They alerted us to the way the UK/US record collectors had learnt about One Day New Horizon.  Dave Martin had bought/sold several copies to places around the world and talked about the impact of the music, not just the LP’s rarity.  It was a revelation that people were true fans of the music rather than making an investment in a rare record.  Yasushi sent us copies of articles that had appeared in the Japanese press during the 1990s and we finally began to realise the impact the music was having in Japan.  With orders from Garden Shed and Marquee Inc., we put some of our own money into a new company.  This financed industry-standard manufacturing for Passing Decades and One Day a New Horizon.

18. You have also released three solo albums. Please briefly explain the concepts and music on the individual albums.

The idea behind Space and Other Singles is to make progressive rock music accessible to people who normally only buy ‘singles’.  The idea comes from memories of Ennio Morriconi’s sweeping orchestral piece that hit the top of the UK charts in the 1980s (‘Theme for the Life and Times of Lloyd George’).  Steve and I felt that the opening and closing sections of Space potentially had a similar popular appeal.  It could – if released effectively – help attract a new generation to this type of music.  We edited two extracts to stand-alone tracks then wrapped them around others to create a history of my music writing and live performing.

The album Passing Decades takes its title from the opening track.  In the 1980s, I was influenced by jazz/funk, particularly Mark King and Level 42.  I still liked progressive rock but combined this with new musical forms and influences coming over from the US.  Passing Decades (the track) was a hybrid between 1970s and 1980s-style composition and I gave it this name to capture how it bridges two generations of music writing.  It was released exactly two decades after the track Passing Decades was originally recorded.  Visually, I took up the ‘passing decades’ theme with pictures of my daughter (Natasha) and wife (Caroline).  Not only did I wish to convey the notion of a girl transforming into a woman, but also connection between daughter and mother, and the journey from childhood innocence to adult sensuality.

A Question of Expression is an exploration (and challenge to) contemporary classical music as a form of human expression.  While studying twentieth century music, my friends and I would often despair at the emotional void it created in listeners.  Once, I was with my composer friend Richard Churches watching symphonic works at London’s Festival Hall: there was an atonal composition by Pierre Boulez performed along with other French music by Ravel and Debussy.  When the Boulez work finished, an elderly man sitting next to me did not clap.  I asked him why and he answered “It’s complete bollocks, isn’t it?”  We split our sides laughing but had to concede the point he was making. 

It changed the way I wrote classical music.  Each track on the album tries to evoke different aspects of human feeling.  From the joy of falling in love (‘Renaissance’) to the brutish attack on a person (‘Interrogation’), or the numbing sadness of human loss (‘When the Pain is Over’) to the calm of travelling through places untouched by human life (‘Space’).  Each composition attempts to reconnect classical music with human feeling.

19. How about the possibility of reforming Protos. If yes, how is your plan (live gigs, recordings) ?

We have discussed this and plans are progressing.  Originally all four members were open-minded but Iain now says he would prefer to focus on new musical ventures with Gordon Giltrap.  He is also a producer for the Phil Collins ‘Little Dreams Foundation’ and this makes additional demands on his time.  Steve and I plan to work on new Protos material and have already identified another 50 minutes of promising material.  Nigel will join us in the recording stages to add guitars, cellos and percussion.  Our goal is another album in October 2007 (pictured, right).  There are many hurdles to overcome, but this is the plan.

New Beginnings

20. How about the musical projects by Stephen, Iain and Nigel? Have you already got any specific ideas?

Iain is recording an album with a band called Bedsit Messiahs (see www.iaincarnegie.com).  At present, they only plan studio work and a sample track is available on the web-site of Tim Oxbrow.  Their album is about half finished and Iain hopes to complete it in the summer of 2007.  At present they are not signed to a label and Iain has not yet made up his mind how to release it. 

Nigel has produced 14 albums with a UK progressive-metal band called Stone Cold.  We’ve started discussions on how to release one or more of these through New Horizons Music. 

Steve’s primary interest is in writing/playing more material with Protos.  So long as we have the energy to write and there is a market willing to buy, Steve and I will continue producing an album each year for the foreseeable future.  If he has solo aspirations, he keeps these close to his chest but I would certainly support him if he wanted to do this. 

We’ve also been discussing work with a talented instrumental rock guitarist called Rob Fowler who lives in Seattle (USA).  He is putting the finishing touches to a band project called Digital Chemistry.  We hope to release his music through New Horizons Music in 2008.

21. From your viewpoint, what does progressive rock mean?

This is a difficult question.  Originally (to me at least) it meant a form of rock music that progressed beyond the popular norms of the day and usually included keyboard playing as an integral component of music writing/performance.  Now, it is often more backward looking, a type of music that draws its inspiration from the styles of well-known recording artists in the mid-1970s.  I like to look both forward and back, and never forget that music is a listening (rather than a writing or performing) experience for most people.  I write music to listen to.  For me, the best music draws on the familiar to create surprises for the listener.  If you drift too far from the familiar, you lose the listener altogether.  If you spring too many surprises, it is too intense to listen to.  I think progressive rock thrives when it touches emotions while remaining dynamic and sensitive to other musical cultures.

22. Finally, please give your fans in Japan a message.

We are deeply grateful for the way your enthusiasm and interest has changed our lives.  More than any other group of fans, people in Japan have kept the music alive and made it possible for Steve and I to write more music.  Please accept our warmest thanks and best wishes.